Comments on: So Orwell was only 20 years off, after all… http://unknowngenius.com/blog/archives/2004/07/12/so-orwell-was-only-20-years-off-after-all/ Chemically-enhanced neural rewiring, on a semi-regular basis... Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:31:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: dr Dave http://unknowngenius.com/blog/archives/2004/07/12/so-orwell-was-only-20-years-off-after-all/comment-page-1/#comment-9052 dr Dave Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:00:00 +0000 http://unknowngenius.com/blog/archives/2004/07/12/so-orwell-was-only-20-years-off-after-all/#comment-9052 <em>Maurice</em>, you seem to be greatly missing on the "subtlety" of my comment here. See, I am not implying anywhere that there was an intent to "cancel" or "forbid" the elections, back when this idea was pushed. First off, it was quite obvious such an idea would never make it through the Supreme Court, if anything... Second, that's precisely what I was commenting on: the constitutionality of such an idea... And to sum things up: there is <em>none</em>. Heard of "check and balance" and the separations of the different branches of power? French constitutional law carries the exact same principle. In fact, it's at the root of pretty much every democratic constitution out there. Implying that the executive branch should take over a role that traditionally doesn't belong it (for good reasons) simply is very unconstitutional. Doing it while invoking vague threats of "terrorism" and "state of alert" to justify it, is about the oldest totalitarian (fascist or communist, I am not picking side here) trick in the book... Oh yea, and by the way, have you by any chance noticed that the "terror alert level" in the US has magically dropped from its perpetual state of panic in the pre-election period, to nary an alert nowadays... Crazy coincidence, huh? I guess seeing W get elected has convinced the bad guys once and for all to stop acting up. As for your more than dubious assertion that "terrorism is war", this is way beyond the scope of a debate through this comment section... Just allow me to point a few things: 1) I challenge you to find a single major state that hasn't experience terrorism in one form or another for any significant period of time... 2) You please tell me how you "restore and secure peace" against terrorism... By reasoning the terrorist and showing them the error of their way? by killing every single last one of them? Huh, I sure hope you got a magic litmus test to detect "evil guys", 'cause that option might take a while when dealing with countless groupuscules of loosely related people only sharing that common label of "terrorist"... 3) US gov itself has clearly established it does not consider terrorists to be war opponents, as it's declined to treat the prisoners made in this "war" according to international war treaties (on the ground they were *not* soldiers, but simple criminals)... So I guess if they say so... I guess the natural conclusion of all this, and if we are to accept your "terrorism is war" statement, the whole world is in a permanent state of war and it is the role of well-meaning government to "restore and secure peace" at all times. You'll pardon me if I find that sort of thinking both dangerous and scary. Maurice, you seem to be greatly missing on the “subtlety” of my comment here.

See, I am not implying anywhere that there was an intent to “cancel” or “forbid” the elections, back when this idea was pushed. First off, it was quite obvious such an idea would never make it through the Supreme Court, if anything…
Second, that’s precisely what I was commenting on: the constitutionality of such an idea…
And to sum things up: there is none. Heard of “check and balance” and the separations of the different branches of power? French constitutional law carries the exact same principle. In fact, it’s at the root of pretty much every democratic constitution out there. Implying that the executive branch should take over a role that traditionally doesn’t belong it (for good reasons) simply is very unconstitutional. Doing it while invoking vague threats of “terrorism” and “state of alert” to justify it, is about the oldest totalitarian (fascist or communist, I am not picking side here) trick in the book…

Oh yea, and by the way, have you by any chance noticed that the “terror alert level” in the US has magically dropped from its perpetual state of panic in the pre-election period, to nary an alert nowadays… Crazy coincidence, huh? I guess seeing W get elected has convinced the bad guys once and for all to stop acting up.

As for your more than dubious assertion that “terrorism is war”, this is way beyond the scope of a debate through this comment section… Just allow me to point a few things:
1) I challenge you to find a single major state that hasn’t experience terrorism in one form or another for any significant period of time…
2) You please tell me how you “restore and secure peace” against terrorism… By reasoning the terrorist and showing them the error of their way? by killing every single last one of them? Huh, I sure hope you got a magic litmus test to detect “evil guys”, ’cause that option might take a while when dealing with countless groupuscules of loosely related people only sharing that common label of “terrorist”…
3) US gov itself has clearly established it does not consider terrorists to be war opponents, as it’s declined to treat the prisoners made in this “war” according to international war treaties (on the ground they were *not* soldiers, but simple criminals)… So I guess if they say so…

I guess the natural conclusion of all this, and if we are to accept your “terrorism is war” statement, the whole world is in a permanent state of war and it is the role of well-meaning government to “restore and secure peace” at all times.

You’ll pardon me if I find that sort of thinking both dangerous and scary.

]]> By: Maurice Raffarin http://unknowngenius.com/blog/archives/2004/07/12/so-orwell-was-only-20-years-off-after-all/comment-page-1/#comment-9051 Maurice Raffarin Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:00:00 +0000 http://unknowngenius.com/blog/archives/2004/07/12/so-orwell-was-only-20-years-off-after-all/#comment-9051 Look, I'm French, but even I understand the meaning of "reschedule". Unless I'm completely mistaken (that's a figure of speech), it's nowhere near "cancel" or "forbid" or any other pseudo No-Pasaran-Stop-Fascism-fantasy you imply in that post. Oh and btw, terrorism is war (sorry to be so blunt and drag you out from under your stone), therefore war on terrorism is aimed at restoring and securing peace. Like it or not. Unless you can come up with a rational and viable alternative of course (no, I'm not losing any sleep on this one). Look, I’m French, but even I understand the meaning of “reschedule”. Unless I’m completely mistaken (that’s a figure of speech), it’s nowhere near “cancel” or “forbid” or any other pseudo No-Pasaran-Stop-Fascism-fantasy you imply in that post.

Oh and btw, terrorism is war (sorry to be so blunt and drag you out from under your stone), therefore war on terrorism is aimed at restoring and securing peace. Like it or not.

Unless you can come up with a rational and viable alternative of course (no, I’m not losing any sleep on this one).

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